Podcast episode
Ep. 133 How Fluency Is Automating AdOps Without Replacing Human Creativity with Eric Mayhew
agency ai-in-adtech programmatic
TL;DR
A sponsored interview with Eric Mayhew, co-founder and Chief Innovation Officer of Fluency, an AdOps automation platform serving ~150 large agencies. The substance is conceptual: a clear framing of the difference between deterministic automation (rule-based, predictable) and probabilistic AI (powerful but error-prone), plus where human oversight still matters for compliance and brand safety. Useful if you run or buy AdOps tooling and want a grounded vendor view on agentic systems and AI-assisted campaign build times; skippable if you want hard numbers, deals, or market signal.
What was covered
- Fluency origin and scale. Mayhew co-founded Fluency in late 2017 with three others after experiencing AdOps pain firsthand at a "rapid growth website company" in automotive (heavily implied to be Dealer.com, where he worked). The company now has ~140 employees and works with roughly 150 large agencies.
- The core problem Fluency targets. Repetitive AdOps work — exporting/pivoting spreadsheets, building allow/disallow lists, taking down promotions on the first of the month — that doesn't scale: human "button clicks" get less efficient, not more, as client volume grows. Margins compress and teams never reach the high-value "long tail" of campaign work.
- Automation vs. AI as distinct tools. Automation is deterministic — rule-based ("when I see this signal, do this action"), predictable, and simply executes the operator's own strategy. AI is probabilistic, advisory, and capable of agentic (autonomous decision-making) work, but carries risk. Mayhew stresses they are complementary, not interchangeable.
- Two misconceptions about automation. One camp thinks automation means surrendering to someone else's strategy (it doesn't — Fluency aims to execute your rules, your way); the opposite camp conflates automation with AI. Mayhew rejects both.
- AI risk and governance. For regulated clients (he cites the Fair Housing Act, relevant to housing/auto advertising), even a small error rate is unacceptable. He frames the value/risk tradeoff as having moved from ~80/20 two years ago to ~90/10 today, with newer models approaching 95/5 — but notes that in some regulated industries even 5% risk can wipe out the value of the other 95%.
- "Context is king." Mayhew argues output reliability depends on context quality fed to LLMs (large language models — AI that generates text). He references practical limits: performance degrades as context windows fill, citing ~200K tokens (units of text the model processes) as a point where quality drops, even on models advertised up to a million tokens. He and the host both mention using Anthropic's Claude Code and hitting memory exhaustion.
- Where humans still win. Accountability, compliance adherence, brand-rule knowledge (he cites employees who knew Subaru's brand rules "cold"), and the "last-mile" human connection between brand and shopper. AI is strong at 24/7 decisioning at scale but weaker than a seasoned specialist.
- Implementation and AI-assisted build. Fluency's "Blueprints" tool merges data sources and turns advertiser strategy into campaigns across Search, Performance Max, DSP, and TikTok. Implementation has dropped from ~3 months to ~1.5–2 months, and AI-assisted generation is reducing multi-day tasks to minutes, shifting users into a review role.
- Future: agentic and personalization. Mayhew predicts a hybrid "stable of agents" — deterministic automation plus probabilistic AI — coexisting. He's personally most excited about personalization/incremental engagement finally becoming practical after a "20-year promise," driven by consumer acceptance of AI-driven personalization (e.g., ChatGPT "knowing" the user) and website personalization.
Notable claims & predictions
- "AI can write poetry and make music and do art but it doesn't do the dishes... what we're really trying to focus on here is doing the dishes." — Mayhew, framing automation's value as removing drudgery, not creativity.
- "It's not making choices. It is executing your choices." — Mayhew, on the deterministic nature of automation, addressing fears that automation makes "wrong" decisions.
- "Two years ago, it was 80-20, and now it's gotten to... 90-10 and I can see the path with the most recent models say 95-5... but [in some regulated] industries that 5% could strike out the value of the rest of the 95%." — Mayhew, on AI's improving but still unacceptable error rate for compliance-heavy verticals.
- "Context is kind of king in the AI world, giving the LLMs... good information so it can make the best decisions." — Mayhew, on why prompt/context quality, not hallucination per se, is the bigger near-term reliability problem.
- "I have yet to see two [agencies] that want to operate the same way." — Mayhew, arguing against one-size-fits-all automation and for customizable workflows.
- "It's been a 20-year promise that I haven't seen really done practically and I think it's right there for us to take now." — Mayhew, on AI/automation finally enabling practical omni-channel personalization.
- On agentic AI hype: "agentic software has actually been around for quite a while... the automation [systems] we've had for years are a version of agentic software now — they aren't agentic AI but they are agentic software." — Mayhew, deflating the agentic buzzword.
Full analysis
Decision Council — Briefing Mode
Step 1 — Frame
A vendor interview lays out a clean conceptual distinction: deterministic automation (rule-based, predictable — "do X when you see Y") versus probabilistic AI (powerful, but wrong some percentage of the time). The implied claim for operators: the near-term winning architecture for AdOps is a hybrid — rules for the regulated, repeatable work; AI agents for the judgment-heavy edges — with humans owning accountability.
What's actually being decided (for your reader): how aggressively to inject AI into campaign-build and AdOps workflows, and where to draw the line between "let the machine decide" and "let the machine execute what we decided."
Reversibility: Mostly Type 2 (easy to reverse) — tooling choices and pilots can be unwound. The Type 1 risk is reputational/regulatory: a compliance error from over-automating in housing, auto, or finance ads doesn't un-happen.
Forcing function: None acute. This is a sponsored conceptual conversation, not a deal or a print. Direct market impact: low. The thinking is more useful than the news.
No clarifying questions needed.
Step 2 — The Council
The Skeptic The load-bearing assumption is that "automation vs. AI" is a clean line operators can manage. It isn't, for long. Mayhew himself predicts they "intermesh" — at which point the comforting "we just execute your rules" pitch erodes, because the rules increasingly get written by probabilistic systems. Also: a vendor selling deterministic reliability has every incentive to play up AI's error rate. The 95/5 framing is intuition, not measurement. For the non-specialist: the vendor is selling caution, so of course caution sounds wise.
The Operator This is the most credible part of the episode, because it's grounded in actual drudgery. The "button clicks get less efficient as you grow" insight is real — AdOps margin dies in spreadsheet exports and first-of-the-month promo takedowns. Cutting onboarding from 3 months to ~6 weeks is the line a buyer actually cares about. But watch the 90-day effect: pushing humans into "review mode" sounds efficient until reviewers rubber-stamp at volume and the error you were avoiding slips through anyway. Plainly: automating the work is easy; keeping humans genuinely awake at the wheel is the hard part.
The CFO The economics are the whole story and they're underspecified here. AdOps automation attacks a real cost line — labor that scales linearly with client count. If implementation drops from 3 months to 6 weeks, that's faster time-to-revenue and lower services cost per account. But the regulated-vertical caution cuts the other way: the "5% risk wipes out the 95% value" math means the AI upside is capped exactly where the highest-volume, most-repetitive accounts often live (auto, housing, finance). The reliable money is in deterministic automation; the AI layer is a margin story that doesn't yet pencil at scale. In short: the boring rules-engine pays the bills; the AI is a bet.
The Long-Term Thinker Three years out, the durable shift isn't the tooling — it's the role redefinition. AdOps headcount stops growing with revenue. That changes how agencies price (away from labor markup, toward platform/outcome fees) and changes what they hire for (fewer button-pushers, more people who can encode brand rules into systems and audit AI output). The personalization claim — "20-year promise, right there to take" — is the one to flag for caution. We've heard it every cycle since behavioral targeting. What's genuinely different now is consumer acceptance of AI knowing them, not the tech. That's a real change, but it's a slow one.
Step 3 — The Tensions
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Skeptic vs. Operator on the clean line. Is "automation executes your choices, AI makes choices" a durable operating principle, or a temporary marketing convenience that collapses as the two intermesh? The vendor's own roadmap (the "stable of agents") argues it collapses.
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CFO vs. Long-Term Thinker on where the value is. The CFO says the reliable money is the deterministic rules engine and the AI layer is capped by regulatory risk. The Long-Term Thinker says the deterministic part is table stakes and the real value is the structural break in how agencies staff and price. Both can be right — but they imply different investment priorities this year.
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Everyone vs. the personalization claim. It's the most exciting and least supported assertion in the episode. The break between "technically possible for 20 years" and "now practical" is asserted, not demonstrated.
Step 4 — Synthesis
What this actually hinges on: two beliefs.
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Belief A: The repetitive AdOps labor problem is real, large, and worth attacking with deterministic automation. This is almost certainly true and the strongest takeaway for any operator. If your AdOps cost scales linearly with client count, you have a margin problem that tooling — not necessarily AI — can fix.
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Belief B: Probabilistic AI can be safely governed into regulated, high-volume campaign work via context management and human review. This is the open question, and the episode is honest that the answer today is "not fully."
Which way the council leans: Toward the boring conclusion. The high-confidence move for agencies and AdOps buyers is deterministic automation of repetitive work now; the AI layer is a governed pilot, not a production commitment, especially in regulated verticals. The "context is king" and "200K-token degradation" points are a useful, sober reminder that today's AI reliability is a function of careful plumbing, not model marketing claims.
For your reader specifically:
- Agencies / AdOps buyers: The threat isn't AI replacing you — it's a competitor cutting onboarding time and AdOps cost while you don't. Audit where your labor scales linearly and fix that first.
- Publishers / sellers: Limited direct impact. The second-order effect — buyers becoming faster and more demanding on campaign build and personalization — is worth watching.
- Ad-tech platforms: The "hybrid stable of agents" framing is directionally where the category is going. The differentiation won't be "we have AI"; it'll be governance, auditability, and brand-rule encoding — the unglamorous compliance layer.
- Measurement / identity / regulated verticals: The Fair Housing point is the real signal. Whoever solves provable compliance for AI-generated campaigns has a defensible business.
What to verify before acting:
- Get measured error rates from any vendor, not the 95/5 intuition — and demand them by vertical.
- Pressure-test the "human review" workflow for rubber-stamping risk at volume.
- Treat the personalization promise as unproven until you see a live, consented, at-scale example — not a demo.
My view: Low news impact, useful conceptual frame. The most valuable line in the whole episode is the least sexy one — "it doesn't do the dishes... we're focused on doing the dishes." Operators should buy the dishes-doing. Everyone overpaying for the poetry-and-music layer in regulated workflows right now is buying risk they can't yet price.
What did we miss? Is there a persona we should add for this specific decision? A General Counsel lens might sharpen the Fair Housing / regulated-vertical exposure — the episode raises it but doesn't probe where liability actually lands when an AI-generated campaign violates the rules. Want me to add that?
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