Podcast episode
Coins in the Wishing Well
ai-in-adtech cloud-costs open-weights programmatic
"Coins in the Wishing Well" is a conversation between Chalice CEO Adam Heimlich and sell-side strategist Gareth Glaser covering three things: Google quietly re-enabling per-bidder price floors in Google Ad Manager, the economics of running AI models inside cloud infrastructure (AWS Bedrock, Azure) rather than through a standalone vendor, and a Palantir commercial revenue figure that Glaser drops without sourcing.
The Google floor reversal is the only claim that's fully checkable and live. Google's 2019 Unified Pricing Rules forced publishers to set one minimum price for every buyer; that rule was a central complaint in the antitrust case Google just lost. Re-enabling per-bidder floors lets publishers set a higher minimum specifically for Google's own AdX buyer. Glaser cites a 5% revenue lift from one publisher. Heimlich's broader claim, that The Trade Desk ignores all floors, is unverified. The $4 million, six-month quote Chalice received to integrate into a single clean-room environment is the most useful number in the episode.
Both hosts are talking their own books. The Google floor story is real; test it in your own Google Ad Manager before buying the rest.
Full analysis
The Skeptic. The weakest move in this episode is treating a blog post as a strategy. Amazon documented one architecture pattern. Adam Heimlich turned that into "Amazon is the master layer controlling all programmatic." That is his inference, not Amazon's claim, and the fact-check flags it as editorial extrapolation. Watch the incentives too. Heimlich runs Chalice, whose pitch is modeling that beats yield tricks, so "price floors are just gaming" is exactly what he'd say. Gareth Glaser is sell-side advisory, so "holdco cloud markups will fail" flatters his book. The Trade Desk "ignores all floors" claim, made by Heimlich, is unverified and probably overstated. Good instincts, thin sourcing.
The Researcher. The one genuinely checkable claim is the Google reversal, and it's real. Google re-enabled per-bidder price floors in Google Ad Manager, undoing its 2019 Unified Pricing Rules that forced publishers to set one minimum price for every buyer. That single-floor rule was a live issue in the antitrust case Google lost. The 5% publisher lift from flooring Google's own buyer higher, which Gareth Glaser cited, is a specific, testable number, though it's one publisher named only as "James" in a live chat. Everything else, the Palantir $1.5B commercial revenue and the WPP-Azure-Microsoft link that Glaser mentioned, is flagged unverified. Treat the Google floor story as fact and the rest as informed gossip.
The Compute Pragmatist. Here's the part that travels past ad tech. Running a model inside your cloud provider's environment, priced as raw compute, is cheaper than paying a standalone AI vendor's per-call markup. If you buy a lot of AWS or Azure already, you get their rate, not a reseller's. That's why Adam Heimlich's "P&G is a bigger cloud customer than its agency" point lands. Procurement at a big brand will refuse to pay an agency markup on compute it can buy direct. The same logic hits every AI middleman. If your vendor's only edge is calling an API you could call yourself at a better rate, the markup is borrowed time.
The Open-Source Advocate. The quiet winner in this framing is the commodity model. If value accrues to whoever hosts and runs models cheaply, then the model itself matters less than the container it runs in. That's the open-weight thesis exactly. An open model you run inside your own Bedrock or Azure environment, at compute cost, undercuts a closed vendor charging per token. Adam Heimlich's "models become applications inside cloud infrastructure" is the same story open-weight advocates have told for two years, arriving now in ad-tech clothing.
The Builder. Strip the strategy talk and ask what you'd ship. The Bedrock pattern, custom model in the bid stream with GPU inference, is a real, documented architecture you could copy. The clean-room story Adam Heimlich walked through is the useful cautionary tale: Chalice was quoted $4 million and six months to put its modeling stack inside one Snowflake or Databricks clean room, with no guaranteed customer. That's the actual cost of "just integrate with the privacy-safe data environment." Anyone being sold a clean-room roadmap should get that number in writing before believing the demo.
Where they disagree. The Compute Pragmatist and the Skeptic split on how fast the "value goes to cloud" call plays out. The economics are sound, but Amazon documenting a container is a long way from Amazon owning programmatic decisioning, and the Skeptic is right that Adam Heimlich and Gareth Glaser skipped that gap. The Researcher and the Open-Source Advocate part on evidence quality: the model-commoditization thesis is directionally strong but rests here on one unverified blog reading, not a shipped Amazon product or a benchmark.
What it hinges on. One belief does the work: that hosting and running a model becomes worth more than making it. If that holds, the cloud giants win, the AI-in-a-box resellers get squeezed, and closed-model valuations built on lock-in get repriced. The council leans toward that being directionally right and premature as a specific Amazon call. Before acting on any of it, the thing to verify is the piece that's actually checkable and actually live: whether Google's floor reversal moves publisher revenue. That's testable in weeks, in your own Google Ad Manager, with a real number attached.
Prediction: Publishers running per-bidder price floors in Google Ad Manager against Google's own AdX buyer will report a measurable single-digit-percent-or-better revenue lift, and Google will not roll back per-bidder floors before its next Google Ad Manager pricing policy update in the first half of 2027.
Confidence: Medium. Google just lost the antitrust case that made the 2019 single-floor rule a problem.
Why: Google re-enabled per-bidder floors in Google Ad Manager after losing the antitrust case where its 2019 Unified Pricing Rules, forcing one floor for every buyer, were a central complaint. The early signal is a reported 5% lift from a publisher flooring Google's buyer higher, and the mechanism is simple: when a publisher can charge Google's AdX buyer more than rival supply paths, Google either pays up or loses the impression, and either way the publisher captures value the single-floor rule denied them. Google won't reverse this quickly because doing so re-creates exactly the behavior a court just ruled against, so the legal cost of undoing it now outweighs the revenue Google gives up. The opposite outcome, a fast rollback, would hand regulators fresh evidence Google can't help itself.
Revisit by 2027-06-30: We're right if publishers report a measurable single-digit-or-better lift from per-bidder floors on Google's buyer and the feature remains live in Google Ad Manager. We're wrong if the lift fails to materialize in publisher reporting or Google removes per-bidder floors before then.
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